Saturday, August 16, 2008

Pliggy, the Dangerous

Ha ha ha ha!

I sent everyone in my email list an email about signing that petition to the governor. I mistakenly thought I could send it to John Lester, the Melaleuca Genius. He decided that pilfering everyone's email address was a great thing to do, and several people emailed me with a complaint that he was spamming them. I, the all powerful pliggy, scared him enough to call the FBI!

He graciously sent me an email telling me what he sent to the FBI:


>>>Al Holm, aka as "Pliggy" online, states online that he likes to "fight." Though it's but a rumor, the FLDS is claimed to believe in "blood atonement," which is, of course, basically killing someone for their own good. I personally don't trust the mental stability of Mr. Holm from what little that I know about him and so I take any threats that he makes even online seriously enough to report it to law enforcement. Here are the two emails that he sent me, and, as you can plainly see, Mr. Holm thinks that HE is law enforcement and that it's incumbent upon HIM to see that the "law" is enforced. Since I'm not aware that I have broken any laws, I am reporting all of this to you. Here's the two emails:

# 1 from Plig Child <pligchild@gmail.com>to gemsmaker@constantcashcollection.biz date Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:23 PM
subject Stealing email addresses hide details 10:23 PM (8 hours ago)

Hey buddy,
Please remove *** from your spam sending list. As well as everyone else you got from my email. If you don't do it quick, the little pliggy is gonna give you some email problems of your own.
I don't like to threaten you again Mr Lester at gemsmaker@constantcashcollection.biz, but these people are not interested in your spam.
Sincerely
Pliggy

# 2 This is your final warning

Plig Child to gemsmaker show details 10:25 PM (8 hours ago) Reply from Plig Child <pligchild@gmail.com>to gemsmaker@constantcashcollection.bizdate Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:25
PMsubject This is your final warning

Stop sending *** emails from your google group!
Pliggy

>>>>Now, while his threats are only in the form of some type of cyber-retaliation, with this guy, given his background, one never knows where he might take this. I would appreciate someone contacting him if only by email for him to know that this report was taken seriously enough for someone to warn him to take any disputes with me thru civil means. Thank you, John Lester
PS I can be contacted at the contact information that I have provided. PPS Also, I don't know for sure that he lives in Hildale, Utah, although I know that, at one time, he lived in or around the FLDS "twin cities" area of Hilldale, Utah and Colorado City, Arizona. Where he lives today, I do not know, but in those cities or areas would be most likely still.
johnlesterakathegemsmaker@gmail.com

-=-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well now that I got a good belly laugh, I do hope Mr Lester can sleep well at night. But for a little while at least anytime someone sends you spam to your inbox, reply with one of Mr Lesters two email addresses. That is until he apologizes for being a nut. It's for your own good Lester.

8 comments:

Maayan said...

lol. Ridiculous!! FBI??? Al Holm dangerous? Please!! He is the kindest person I have ever met and does anything possible for him to make his friends special!! I am NOT FLDS and he is part of my friend list. I am Jewish and he DOES NOT treat me different because of that. The only words I hear from him is YOU ARE AWSOME and he does not understand that the awsome person here is him. Mr lester should try to talk to him without insults and a narrow mind and will see that THERE IS NO FRIEND LIKE HOLM!!! Sincear, and always there for anyone and helping everyone.
You are the best Al!!! We all love you!!

Pliggy said...

Is it being proud to publish that?

Thanks Maayan,
You are awesome!

Anonymous said...

I got his spam too. It was quite annoying, considering I was forced to unsubscribe or I'd get more email from him daily. Who ever came up with the idea of automatic subscription to an email list without consent?

Pliggy said...

I decided not to publish your link ol John Boy, I think I have given you enough audience. But what I will do is publish our conversation that started when you contacted me back in May

Here goes:

JOHN LESTER:
Plygkid,
most of the people on the FACT group are practicing Fundamentalist Mormon polygynists. Many of them I have no doubt you know very well. You should join us.

I'd like to be your friend. I'd like to learn from you. I read all Mormon Scripture for the first time 16 months ago and within 2 months after starting I believe in its Inspiration and Joseph Smith as being a Prophet.

Since that time, I've been working very hard to learn all things Mormon.

Again, I would hope to learn from you. I've learned different things from everyone on the FACT group. Many of them I emal daily now and cell phone often and they're right in my speed dials.

Your friend,
John Lester

PS I feel for your situation. Most of all I want to hear what you have to say about Warren Jeffs. If you help me believe in his total innocence, that would be good for him, because I know many Mormon Fundamentalists outside of FLDS that do not believe this and I have contact with and/or influence over them. Including with people like Ann Wilde who doesn't think very well of Warren at all If you could satisfy the several questions I have, if I became convinced, I could convince or at least influence the thinking of people like Anne and others like her. Anne has direct contact with Utah AG Shurtleff as co-Founder of Principal Voices

ME:
Thank you sir, for your kind words.
But I would never be one to try to convince someone that my beliefs are better than theirs. I only want the right to believe what I do without being considered a criminal. All I want to say, I will say on my blog.

Thank you,
Al Holm

JOHN LESTER:
Al, I don't understand your reply. Our beliefs are very, very similar. I want to get to know you to understand the FLDS and Warren Jeffs better.

I figured you would know who I am but maybe not. I'm the guy that the SLC Trib wrote an ONLINE ARTICLE about at

http://www.sltrib.com/columnists/ci_8981935

a few weeks ago for being a "rude bully" because I was fighting so hard to defend the FLDS and they couldn't refute my arguments so the "liberated women" over there ganged up and had me booted off. So now I'm running my own board at

http://groups.google.com/group/fatherabrahamschildrentogether

As you can see it's massively pro-FLDS and I have a number of FLDS brethren from around the country on my board. They all are very silent readers though...only the non-polygs and people from Centennial Park publicly post. If any of my regular posters are FLDS, they're even keeping that secret from me. But I know I have FLDS people on my board because I've talked to them by cell phone. They have my number because I publicly publish it.

I welcome you to call me at -

I like friends. I hope you do too! I recognize your last name Holm because I know your brother almost got his case to the Supreme Court.

I'd really like to be your friend. I *promise* you I won't get you in trouble. The FLDS brethren trust me a GREAT deal. If you had only seen how HARD I fought for the FLDS while I was still able to get on the Trib board.

Patriarchally yours,
John Lester

PS As far as the Trib boards go, I am just as persecuted for holding Fundamentalist Mormon beliefs in my banning from the Trib boards as Warren Jeffs probably is persecuted for being in jail unrighteously. I just pray you'll increase my learning and my understanding. I keep everything private. I'd sooner cut my own throat than hurt a Patriarchal brother or his family...if you want to "check me out" test me etc. call me and you'll see. I've had over a dozen brethren from FLDS, Centennial Park and AUB do that very same thing already. Every single one of them are now my trusted friends. :)

ME:

John,
I do not doubt your sincerity but I am very busy myself. I have a personal testimony of Warren Jeffs and have had for years. But you want me to convince you of the truth that I know, but I don't have the authority to be a missionary.

I can tell by your words that you know less about the FLDS than you profess. As I will not "get in trouble" in fact that made me laugh. If you know alot of FLDS brethren, why do you need me to be your friend? Not that I don't like friends, its just that my best friend is my Father in Heaven and He is really the only friend I need. The FLDS men know this better than I do.

We don't really want to fight. We just want freedom.

Yours,
Al

JOHN LESTER:
Al, I have encoutered secretive FLDS men, which I completely understand and am sympathetic to given their situation of living The Principle in a world that is so extremely hostile to it, but what is unique to your situation (based on what I've encountered so far) and very confusing to me (if not even dismaying) is the fact that you seem to project towards me a very thinly veiled almost hostility.

I don't want you to convince me of anything...I always make up my own mind about things...I'm just hoping to share info....and I'd like to just talk to you as a friend and Jeffs would just be one subject that would probably come up...

...I'm certainly not claiming to know everything about FLDS...I probably know a lot more about them that most people that have never been FLDS themselves...what I do know well is Mormon Scripture...studying that made me a Fundamentalist right off the bat..I looked a 40 year old LDS ex-missionary in the eye and told him to his face I didn't respect men lacking the courage to live the Scripture that they had been given (he told me that he believe in plural marriage as well but they didn't practice it because it was against man's law, I don't buy that based on Acts 5:29, D & C 132, etc).

Why do I need you to be your friend? I *don't* "need" you to be my friend. I just like to have friends! Especially when I'm preparing to enter the lifestyle of plural marriage for the first time in the history of my entire family. I'm like a Brigham Young in that regard...a convert. Not somebody like yourself who I presume was raised in it. It's like I'm setting off on a voyage to a land I've never been to before and of course you'd like to be friends with some of the people on board this new ship you're starting to ride on for the very first time in your life.

As far as Heavenly Father being the only friend that you ever need, in one sense that is true, but what about when Jesus said "no greater love than this does a man have but if that man lay down his life for his friends" and then the one in the Pauline Epistles that talks about the world knowing that we are Christians by "the love that they see us Christians showing to one another."

I'm offering you the hand of love and fellowship and it's almost like you're a Pit Bull wanting to bite it off! Like I said, I've encountered FLDS men that we're secretive, but up until now their emails and their phone calls have always been warm and welcoming.

I'm not a "gentile." I believe in Mormon Scripture's Inspiration Fundamentally..and I have the testimony that Joseph Smith is a prophet. On the Trib boards and on my FACT boards you'll see that I vigorously defend Mormon Fundamentalists, Mormon Scripture and Joseph Smith. I gave the atheist libertarian Duane a private email lashing just 48 hours ago for publicly slandering Joseph Smith in a way that really annoyed me (since most of the time Duane doesn't do that type of thing).

I'll ask again...will you be my friend?

#
Mosiah 4: 15
15 But ye will teach them to walk in the ways of truth and soberness; ye will teach them to love one another, and to serve one another.

#
Mosiah 18: 21
21 And he commanded them that there should be no contention one with another, but that they should look forward with one eye, having one faith and one baptism, having their hearts knit together in unity and in love one towards another.
#
Moro. 9: 5
5 For so exceedingly do they anger that it seemeth me that they have no fear of death; and they have lost their love, one towards another; and they thirst after blood and revenge continually.
#
D&C 88: 123
123 See that ye love one another; cease to be covetous; learn to impart one to another as the gospel requires.
#
Moses 7: 33
33 And unto thy brethren have I said, and also given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father; but behold, they are without affection, and they hate their own blood;
#
JS-H 1: 6
6 For, notwithstanding the great alove which the converts to these different faiths expressed at the time of their conversion, and the great zeal manifested by the respective clergy, who were active in getting up and promoting this extraordinary scene of religious feeling, in order to have everybody converted, as they were pleased to call it, let them join what sect they pleased; yet when the converts began to file off, some to one party and some to another, it was seen that the seemingly good feelings of both the priests and the converts were more pretended than real; for a scene of great confusion and bad feeling ensued—priest contending against priest, and convert against convert; so that all their good feelings one for another, if they ever had any, were entirely lost in a strife of words and a contest about opinions.

Joh 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Joh 13:35
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another *.

Joh 15:12
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Joh 15:17
These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Ro 12:10
Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

Ro 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Ga 5:13
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Eph 4:2
With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

1Th 3:12
And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:

1Th 4:9
But as touching brotherly love ye need * not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

Heb 10:24
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

1Pe 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1Pe 3:8
Finally *, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

1Jo 3:11
For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

1Jo 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jo 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1Jo 4:11
Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

1Jo 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

2Jo 1:5
And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

Patriarchally yours,
John Lester

ME:
John,
I sincerely apologize if you think I am a bulldog, or meanspirited. I do not mean to be.
I just was rather put back by your first e-mail when you said " If you help me believe in his total innocence, that would be good for him"
and when you said about the FACT group "You should join us"

I have a blog where I want everyone to see that I believe in Warren Jeffs innocence, it is there that you can ask any question you want and I will answer the best I know how. But it seems that you want "inside" information that would be exclusive to you. Perhaps it is you that have come across as a little disingenuous, and are pushing that on me?

Even as we learned in grade school, very few genuine friends run up to your face and jump up and down, calling "Be My Friend!, Be my friend!" True friends are still there after all those kids beat you up.

If I come across as biligerent to your goals, perhaps that is best. I am no missionary trying to expound and convince people of the error of their ways or the truth of the gospel. I am just me. I only discuss my religion to help those who want to avoid being a part of the mob that seeks to destroy an innocent people.

I have no authority, literally, I must be more careful than any FLDS man.

Yours,
Al Holm

JOHN LESTER:
Al, before I started doing research on Warren, I thought that surely there must be SOMETHING wrong somewhere. But the more I researched, the more I began to believe that he was mostly or totally innocent of the charges laid against him in a court of law as well as the media world at large. That's why I have consistently defended him publicly. I certainly don't think any man should be in jail for simply performing a marriage ceremony between two teenagers, one 14 and the other 19. My Pentecostal Preacher grandfather was 22 when he married my 14 year old Grandmother back in the 1930s with parental and state permission. My mother was the 4th of their 10 children. :)

But there is 1 thing that still troubles me. 1 of the 2 nephews who claimed that Warren sexually abused him as a child apparently put a gun in his mouth and blew his brains out. Is that true? That's my understanding. At first, that chilled me to no end. I knew it wasn't proof, but that kind of thing normally doesn't occur in a vacuum. The only exculpatory evidence I've found for that is that there seems to be a claim that psychologists "recovered memories" from these boys that this abuse allegedly occurred. If THAT's how the memories were retrieved, then I don't buy that at all as I don't buy into psychologists and hypnotists recovering repressed memories. It might have been the psychologists fault that the kid killed himself (by screwing his head up) or maybe the kid was just having problems with other areas of his life.

I'm just telling you exactly where I'm at in my thinking. I've never been FLDS and I don't know Warren personally so I've been talking to everyone I can in the FLDS community and also in the Centennial Park community that know of Warren or who have known him personally. I've talked to one Centennial Park man who was taught by Warren at Alta Academy. I talked to a polygynous married couple from Centennial Park who told me about the Jeffs nephew who, they claimed, was going to go shoot and kill Warren for the alleged abuse but, when people talked him out of it, he shot and killed himself instead. That's the nephew that I talk about above that initially chilled me but now that I've learned that apparently this was from memories induced by a pyyschologist I now have doubts about Warren's alleged crimes against these boys. Maybe the boy killed himself because he knew he was falsely accusing the Prophet and felt so guilty and bad about that that he killed himself? I don't know what the truth is and maybe I'll never know what the truth is but I'm trying to develop the most informed opinion I can which to me is a part of what faith is. My faith in God is based upon my study of Scripture and developing the most informed opinion that I can. What I don't know for sure I bridge that gap with FAITH. So I can have faith that Warren is a prophet but up until that time I want to get as much information as I can.

As far as being put back, I'm sorry that I had that effect upon you, but you see, it's MY NATURE. I am very, very much an extremely transparent person. One of the reasons that the Trib people hated me so much (especially the GODLESS Feminazis as I called them which drove them absolutely beserk) was because I wasn't even secretive about MY identity. I publicly posted my name, email address, phone numbers, etc. and proudly proclaimed that I'm the virgin grandson of a Pentecostal Preacher (he preached 60+ years and the last 40+ pastored his own large church). Everyone on my Mom's side of the family calls me Little Earl (my grandfather's name was Earl) because I look just like him (more than any of his own sons) and act and think just like him.

Now, regarding YOUR privacy, I'll protect that to my death.

As far as you joining the FACT group, I basically invite the whole world to the FACT group. There's no specific targeting going on...I am an intellectual really into the study of theology and I like to hear and consider all voices. The study of Mormon Scripture has opened my understanding on theological issues in a massive way! It's like the heavens have opened for me and God shines thru so much more clearly since I began studying Mormon Scripture back in January of 2007!

As far as true friends go, I was the nerdy kid who always got beat up, Allen. Even when I finally realized as I grew older how physically strong I am, because of being picked on so much growing up for being the "smart" kid, I've always instinctively stood up for the abused and the underdog because I was in their shoes for most of my life as a kid.

What I am and have been all of my life is a lover of and seeker of TRUTH.

Regardless of what you feel you can tell me about Warren, I still ask you to be my friend, Allen. I was just as much interested interested in being your friend and learning from a FLDS man in general about the FLDS way of life as I was seeking any specific information about Warren. I understand much of Mormon Fundamentalist theology but now I'm trying to understand how it's practiced on the ground. I've bought and read all of Ogden Kraut's books (Ann sold all of them to me a year ago for a discounted $300) and I next plan on buying or obtain books and literature that Rulon Jeffs and other leaders in polygynous organizations have written. So I hope you will be my friend and help me LEARN. That's all I desperately want...
?
Patriarchally yours,
John Lester

PS I've just spent about 10 minutes studying D&C 6 and related passages. From what I've heard about you on the Trib board, my understanding is that you were ex-communicated for looking at "inappropriate things." Without going into details, I think I know what that might entail. Therefore, I think that you might be more concerned with D & C 63:16 than the passage you cite later in that chapter. I've studied that chapter now and what that refers to is D&C 58:50 and an apparent dispute regarding monies involved in the Law of Consecration (United Effort). Therefore, the passage that you cite applies to those that would directly challenge the authority of the Prophet, not commit a personal sin out of common human frailty such as is common to Man. Violating D&C is a serious matter, but that puts you at odds with God, not Man nor the Prophet. Having the Law of Placing take effect upon such a matter if it was a one time thing or not a many time thing and the brother fairly quickly repented, I don't think that God intended for children and wives to be taken away from a man that quickly. I believe that the Law of Placing has a place based on my study of 1st Corinthians and believers being able to be divorced from unbelievers not pleased to dwell with the believers, but if you repented, and didn't continue, then I would say that that is the sign of a believer, not an unbeliever. The Epistle of John says that if we say we DO NOT sin, then we're liars, and the truth is not in us. And then it goes on to say that if we sin, but we repent, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ. Anyways, I'm just sharing my views with you regarding that passage. The FLDS very well may and probably do interpret it differently and, perhaps in my view, more harshly. I still think that a careful study of the passage you cite is condemning the public rebellion directly against the Prophet and not the private sins of a mortal man.

ME:

I don't have much time right now, but I was a personal friend at one time to Claine Jeffs who committed suicide. He was a drug addict and his girlfriend that he lived with left him and took his child. That is when the shrink was called in. His parents had apostatized from the church over ten years ago and blamed all their troubles on the then principal of the school Warren Jeffs. (They left because of the dress code at the school)

I also knew Brent as a little boy, he was a happy normal little boy.

I discussed this on my blog, so go read the whole thing and then ask me anything else. I will answer when I can. Gotta go
Yours,
Al

P.S. I am rather insulted at your comment "I don't think that God intended for children and wives to be taken away from a man that quickly" Because it is none of your business, and you have no idea how "quickly" it happened with me or any other man. Just be careful what you believe, or conclude, based on limited facts.

PSS. If any of that garbage was true, do you think that Brents own brother and sister would still be following Warren Jeffs?

JOHN LESTER:
I don't know why you get so offended by all of this. I'm *trying* to be on *your* side but I don't have all of the information that you have...and I have to be an honest man. Before I can defend Warren Jeffs beyond saying what I do know which is a man shouldn't be put in jail for marrying 2 teenagers, I have to get it straight in my heart and mind that the accusations of buggering little nephews of his is false. You've helped fill in the picture and I doubt that it is true more than ever now...I think that one of the things that I ought to do is just read some of the transcripts of Warren's trial. My guess is is that they put on a good defense but Warren lost just why God's people almost always lose before the world and that's because they don't like us (and our lifestyles bring them under conviction). As far as your statement regarding how the FLDS exercises the Law of Placement, you're absolutely right, I have very limited facts as to how they put that into practice and that's why I'm trying to learn their theology on that matter. I'm hoping that you can be of help there as well as you have been explaining the situation with Claine but that's up to you.

The last thing in the world I'm trying to do is offend you. I'm also not trying to be "overly sweet or disingenuously" charming.I'm basically just being my normal inquisitive always trying to LEARN self.

That's all.

Please don't me angry with me.

If I've offended you, I apologize. The scriptures say in Proverbs that a brother offended is harder to win than a city. It's wrong to offend the righteous and I believe FLDS people are righteous people. You look, act and dress very much like the Pentecostals with whom I grew up with and attended church with for so many years.

I've been stating that publicly for 5 weeks now much longer than before I knew of your existence. About my admiration for the FLDS.

Blessings and Goodness follow you My Brother and Patriarchally yours,
John Lester

I didn't know that but that ALSO makes a LOT of sense. The FLDS gets SO MUCH bad publicity partly because these facts are simply not known to the public. I've been studying the FLDS starting a very little bit 5 years ago to a LOT over the past 16 months or so and it's only been the past few days/weeks that I've begun to understand how badly persecuted the FLDS really are.

But the FLDS, in my opinion, and I could be wrong, is making it harder on themselves by not getting THEIR SIDE out..all the public is hearing is one side. One of the good things (if there could be anything good to come out of this fiasco) is that the FLDS now has put up a website and there are BAZILLIONS of people out there like me who are learning about the FLDS and defending them against these attacks. The more we learn about the truth of what happened, the better we can defend the FLDS.

Remember, when God protects us, oftentimes he uses ordinary men and women. A man like me for example. When you say God will protect the FLDS, God's plan may be to use 10,000 John Lesters on blogs all over the Internet as *part* of his plan for defending the FLDS!

Patriarchally yours,
John Lester

Anonymous said...

Why are you publishing private emails?


That makes you so not cool and not awesome.

Pliggy said...

Well what is cool? And what is awesome? Although I did not post Mr Lesters link as he has gotten plenty of publicity from me, I did wander over to the site and read Mr Lesters comments.

I am so very curious how an innocent little EMAIL PHISHING EXPEDITION is being genteeel with me, and then EMAILING THE FREAKING FBI!!! is not being "contentious" when I merely told Mr Lester that it was NOT COOL, and NOT AWESOME to SPAM my email contacts.

Tell me what you would do? I merely did the logical thing, PUBLISH IT! :)

So again I wandered over to Mr Lesters Blog (which I AM NOT a memberof, thank you) and I will quote his prophesy that I fulfilled here in my comments:

"If I posted those emails he sent me back in April or whatever it was....wow. The only thing I can think of to explain that is how the FLDS stays away from everybody else and how they're taught that
everybody else is evil."

So I posted them for him to relieve the curiosity :)

Hey I could post his phone number, but I didn't.....yet :)

bwa ha ha ha ha!

Dale Kemp said...

I read about you on FACT.

Anybody who has been around knows that John Lester is very public about his phone number.

But hey, if you want to do him the favor I'm sure he'll thank you for it.

Pliggy said...

Well that is great, now I can only ask nice. :)