Yes indeed, there is one thing in which I agree with her. One thing.
It is hard to leave the FLDS.
But it is not because she couldn't take her children (well she did have to lie to them to "free" them in the middle of the day). It is not because she was abused, or her children were abused (her daughter chose her father the day she turned 18). It is not because she had no money (more than what she earned) . It is not because she didn't get educated (College degree, teachers certificate). No, it was not because anyone else physically stopped her in any way.
But I know it was hard for her to leave the FLDS. VERY HARD
She had to decide that what she was doing was RIGHT.
After living in the FLDS, with the sweetest people on the planet. With hard working men, and sweet women, and many, many good neighbors.
THAT is a hard thing to leave.
Showing posts with label wives. Show all posts
Showing posts with label wives. Show all posts
Thursday, July 24, 2008
Saturday, July 12, 2008
I Am Not A Crime
I have been writing this blog for a few months now, and I still get similar questions and comments that I did when I started. Some ask me how I could defend that cult-ture or the FLDS sect-ual abuse. Some people expect me to be on the defensive when I write to them. It is as if they think that I am trying to justify something that is wrong.
I am not.
Only three decades ago a teenager became pregnant with a baby. The father of that child was married to another woman, and was more than ten years older than the young girl. And I couldn't care less if the entire world, all of the governments, and all of the churches put together, and even if you, your own wonderful pious self, condemn what happened at that time.
I was born, and I was not a mistake, let alone evidence of a crime.
I was the greatest thing to happen in the life of a girl, I was the most cherished thing on the planet to one particular mother, I was brought into this world to the greatest woman on Earth, and one of the greatest men, and if anyone does not like that, too bad. If you do not like the fact that I was born when I was born to who I was born to, you might as well go read the Anti-FLDS sites, because you cannot be helped here.
I was born into a Covenant, and that Covenant was ordained by God, the Creator of this world and of this Universe. I was born to a couple who were sealed for time and All Eternity in the one true Church on earth, by the only man on earth who Almighty God gave that authority to. I was a large part of the reason my mother not only willingly, but very anxiously entered into that Covenant. I was not only wanted, but those two people, my wonderful parents, were sealed together for the very purpose of bringing me into this world. My heritage and birth is the greatest honor and privilege that God has ever given to me. And if you don't like it, I have no way to help you. I am alive, and I will not go away for you.
Putting my father in jail would have accomplished nothing good. Putting my mother in jail, or in a shelter, would have done absolutely nothing good. Kidnapping me from my mother, which would have been like killing me (which some people might endorse), would have accomplished absolutely nothing but to serve the devil. And if you would have liked any of this to happen, you are serving the devil yourself, willingly or not.
If you are praying for me to see the light, praying that I would condemn my own birth, my own father, and my own religious procreation, then I know that the god that you pray to is not the God of heaven, but is the god of hell, and all your prayers for me are much, much less than a waste of time.
If that is your prayer, please pray for someone else besides me. I have had enough problems with Lucifer and seek no more of his “help”
The people who say that the raid on the YFZ ranch happened the way it did to avoid another Waco are very confused, and some very willingly. That is as opposite of truth as there ever has been in history. The reason the raid happened at all was because they WANTED another Waco; they were expecting another Branch Davidian fight. And those who yet to this day endorse that awful State-sponsored terrorist act, are either rotten bigots, dark-hearted apostates, or among the masses of the grossly and willingly misinformed.
The most horrid of people, those who yet say that the temple doors were broken down, and that sacred building was desecrated by the wicked sheriff and his monsters for even the slightest hint of a good reason, are serving the master of mayhem, Beelzebub himself. That sacred and holy temple had been anxiously awaited for over a hundred years by the greatest of people, and only the devil himself and his willing followers could have ever desired to make it the worthless shell it has now become. And only the darkest imaginations and vilest hearts could have ever desired to invade and invalidate the sacredness of such a place.
May they repent and ask forgiveness, is my only desire for them. Until then, they are my enemies. I forgive my enemies already, and will seek to do only good toward them, but that does not change the fact that they remain my enemies, and the enemies of my people.
I am not.
Only three decades ago a teenager became pregnant with a baby. The father of that child was married to another woman, and was more than ten years older than the young girl. And I couldn't care less if the entire world, all of the governments, and all of the churches put together, and even if you, your own wonderful pious self, condemn what happened at that time.
I was born, and I was not a mistake, let alone evidence of a crime.
I was the greatest thing to happen in the life of a girl, I was the most cherished thing on the planet to one particular mother, I was brought into this world to the greatest woman on Earth, and one of the greatest men, and if anyone does not like that, too bad. If you do not like the fact that I was born when I was born to who I was born to, you might as well go read the Anti-FLDS sites, because you cannot be helped here.
I was born into a Covenant, and that Covenant was ordained by God, the Creator of this world and of this Universe. I was born to a couple who were sealed for time and All Eternity in the one true Church on earth, by the only man on earth who Almighty God gave that authority to. I was a large part of the reason my mother not only willingly, but very anxiously entered into that Covenant. I was not only wanted, but those two people, my wonderful parents, were sealed together for the very purpose of bringing me into this world. My heritage and birth is the greatest honor and privilege that God has ever given to me. And if you don't like it, I have no way to help you. I am alive, and I will not go away for you.
Putting my father in jail would have accomplished nothing good. Putting my mother in jail, or in a shelter, would have done absolutely nothing good. Kidnapping me from my mother, which would have been like killing me (which some people might endorse), would have accomplished absolutely nothing but to serve the devil. And if you would have liked any of this to happen, you are serving the devil yourself, willingly or not.
If you are praying for me to see the light, praying that I would condemn my own birth, my own father, and my own religious procreation, then I know that the god that you pray to is not the God of heaven, but is the god of hell, and all your prayers for me are much, much less than a waste of time.
If that is your prayer, please pray for someone else besides me. I have had enough problems with Lucifer and seek no more of his “help”
The people who say that the raid on the YFZ ranch happened the way it did to avoid another Waco are very confused, and some very willingly. That is as opposite of truth as there ever has been in history. The reason the raid happened at all was because they WANTED another Waco; they were expecting another Branch Davidian fight. And those who yet to this day endorse that awful State-sponsored terrorist act, are either rotten bigots, dark-hearted apostates, or among the masses of the grossly and willingly misinformed.
The most horrid of people, those who yet say that the temple doors were broken down, and that sacred building was desecrated by the wicked sheriff and his monsters for even the slightest hint of a good reason, are serving the master of mayhem, Beelzebub himself. That sacred and holy temple had been anxiously awaited for over a hundred years by the greatest of people, and only the devil himself and his willing followers could have ever desired to make it the worthless shell it has now become. And only the darkest imaginations and vilest hearts could have ever desired to invade and invalidate the sacredness of such a place.
May they repent and ask forgiveness, is my only desire for them. Until then, they are my enemies. I forgive my enemies already, and will seek to do only good toward them, but that does not change the fact that they remain my enemies, and the enemies of my people.
Tuesday, June 24, 2008
Longing of a Sister and Mother
“Will I ere forget that fateful day when we came home and found our loved ones gone; no happy children scampering here and there? The bassinet where slept our newest tiny. Tis emptied of its precious load, but the pillow still waits, and quilts and blankets in readiness for her return. And little golden-haired Janice, with her dimpling little body, energetically scampering hither and yon; her darling round face, either bubbling over with smiles, else clouds and tears, so fast changing from one to the other with her little joys and sorrows.
“Joe Billy and Charles’ bed is empty of two little boys- blue eyed, teasing and roguish-cannot be seen anymore, with the little cars, playing make believe, doing what they’ve seen dear Daddy do. Jimmy too, with his ‘some treasured’ toy he carries around, and refuses to put away, even when bedtime comes. His chair is empty now, at meal times, like all the others, where two rows of little ones sat at the table, where the happy din of voices asking for food, with thank-you’s and pleases. Then there’s Regina; her highchair is also lacking; that little chunk of fairest face, and blue eyed sweetness. O why? Oh why are they gone? Is this not America? Her little crib is empty also, waiting her return.
“And my little Mary! The one who would cling to me so, who always came scampering to me when I came back, who loved to sleep in my bed. Oh Mary! The tears are falling fast! The swing in the shade of elm trees seem to be waiting for someone. The neighbor’s twins come sometimes but they cannot keep it filled, and the sand pile had your footprints still there when we came home, and your playthings still lay by. Little Hallie comes in, searches the house with her eyes and then goes out, without seeing whom she had come to see. You!
“Well, then there are the larger ones of the crew—Dorothy, ten, with her dark blue eyes and her saucy chin, and two great braids of blonde hair, quick of movement and anxious to learn to cook, embroidery and sew—Thelma, her sandy complexion, clear-eyed and beautiful, dainty to the minute and anxious to be neat and sweet. Oh, how we miss you here my lovely ones.
“And Laura, fair like our little Regina, with white braids of hair falling far down her back. Her smile was ever fair to see, like a beam of sunlight in her room, it came ever so regal and free. And Hannah, her “old way”, though only six, so quaint, also fair of face, sweet of countenance and full of grace, so full of mischief at times, and fun and sorrowful at others.
“Then there are the boys, Neil, Terry, and Dwight—we miss you coming and going, your work, your play, your happy voices, and there is a vacancy here where you should be. The mountains speak of you, the fields and gardens miss you, as also the pup; he’s growing up too fast. Dear little sons, pray and be patient for this is a long, hard fight.
“And the dear beloved mothers of these babes, I love them with all my heart and soul, and cry, “Oh GOD, let me have them back, we will do better!” Oh Arizona [Texas], one star in the constellation of the blue, is yours, in our dear flag. Are you going to defile it, darken it’s sacred beauty by blasting the hopes of some of your citizens, by separating little ones from their dear mothers, and separating children and mothers from their dear fathers? And why, O why? Arizona? [Texas?] When our fathers came and fought and died for freedom, who, God-inspired, composed the Constitution, which insures the rights of liberty and freedom, and of religious worship to all in our fair country?”
-Myrtle Vera Cooke (1953)
“Joe Billy and Charles’ bed is empty of two little boys- blue eyed, teasing and roguish-cannot be seen anymore, with the little cars, playing make believe, doing what they’ve seen dear Daddy do. Jimmy too, with his ‘some treasured’ toy he carries around, and refuses to put away, even when bedtime comes. His chair is empty now, at meal times, like all the others, where two rows of little ones sat at the table, where the happy din of voices asking for food, with thank-you’s and pleases. Then there’s Regina; her highchair is also lacking; that little chunk of fairest face, and blue eyed sweetness. O why? Oh why are they gone? Is this not America? Her little crib is empty also, waiting her return.
“And my little Mary! The one who would cling to me so, who always came scampering to me when I came back, who loved to sleep in my bed. Oh Mary! The tears are falling fast! The swing in the shade of elm trees seem to be waiting for someone. The neighbor’s twins come sometimes but they cannot keep it filled, and the sand pile had your footprints still there when we came home, and your playthings still lay by. Little Hallie comes in, searches the house with her eyes and then goes out, without seeing whom she had come to see. You!
“Well, then there are the larger ones of the crew—Dorothy, ten, with her dark blue eyes and her saucy chin, and two great braids of blonde hair, quick of movement and anxious to learn to cook, embroidery and sew—Thelma, her sandy complexion, clear-eyed and beautiful, dainty to the minute and anxious to be neat and sweet. Oh, how we miss you here my lovely ones.
“And Laura, fair like our little Regina, with white braids of hair falling far down her back. Her smile was ever fair to see, like a beam of sunlight in her room, it came ever so regal and free. And Hannah, her “old way”, though only six, so quaint, also fair of face, sweet of countenance and full of grace, so full of mischief at times, and fun and sorrowful at others.
“Then there are the boys, Neil, Terry, and Dwight—we miss you coming and going, your work, your play, your happy voices, and there is a vacancy here where you should be. The mountains speak of you, the fields and gardens miss you, as also the pup; he’s growing up too fast. Dear little sons, pray and be patient for this is a long, hard fight.
“And the dear beloved mothers of these babes, I love them with all my heart and soul, and cry, “Oh GOD, let me have them back, we will do better!” Oh Arizona [Texas], one star in the constellation of the blue, is yours, in our dear flag. Are you going to defile it, darken it’s sacred beauty by blasting the hopes of some of your citizens, by separating little ones from their dear mothers, and separating children and mothers from their dear fathers? And why, O why? Arizona? [Texas?] When our fathers came and fought and died for freedom, who, God-inspired, composed the Constitution, which insures the rights of liberty and freedom, and of religious worship to all in our fair country?”
-Myrtle Vera Cooke (1953)
Tuesday, June 17, 2008
The Communist Dictator
The FLDS religion has three central tenants that distinguish it from every other religion on the planet, and although other religions and churches ascribe to parts or all of them in one form or another to a certain degree, no other religion ascribes to all three with the determination and devotion to them that the FLDS faithful do. These are in essence the crowning laws that if lived faithfully can create characters that will be worthy of the highest heaven:
1-The Holy United Order (referred to in the Bible and Book of Mormon as “All Things in Common”) This is the Economic Order of heaven. Also called the Order of Enoch
2-The Celestial Law of Marriage, including the plurality of wives. This is the Family Order of Heaven. Also called the Law of Abraham
I list the two highest laws for us to ponder upon. Many who may read this may be very vengeful about them, or at least indifferent to them, wanting me to get to the central one; the one that makes these two laws livable on earth. But I would like you to imagine yourself taking your entire life; stripping it of selfishness, and putting it into these two laws.
Men must overcome all jealousy to live the first one. It is the most difficult. Their effort must be completely selfless or the Order will not function. Masculinity is rather independent and confrontational, and these things must be subdued in the heart. In all of history, this economic order has only one lasting success story, found in the Pearl of Great Price. After the Savior came the early Saints set up this order in Israel and in America, but they did not last. The YFZ community in Texas is one of the central efforts set up today. There are others, but they all have this in common; unity of economic effort; giving all for the common good.
The second law requires the ladies to overcome their jealousy. That is easy for them. No lady has ever had a problem living polygny. OK! I am just joking! But ladies do have an inward ability to be more compassionate and caring, humble and religious. There are struggles, for sure, jealousy and selfishness cannot survive, but day to day life is easier for the ladies who share the duties of the home. It is not difficult when they can find a man who is stalwart and loyal to his leaders and an example of how to live pure. Joining forces with him is not as difficult as is portrayed by the few who abandon the idea.
Few people have any idea how wonderful the home and community is with those who are determined to overcome themselves and live these laws to their last breath. I have never seen a happier more peaceful people. But I must tell you, these two laws cannot be lived without the one that this post is titled after. I promise you, it is impossible.
The FLDS church is a family, and church organization under the wing of the Constitutional laws of the United States. The political order within the church itself is a Benevolent Dictatorship; in essence communism, or communalism.
Personal free will is what the war in heaven was fought over. It is what the American war of Independence was fought over. Almost every war that ever was, was one fought over freedom from tyranny and oppression. But by reading the Bible, you can see that God puts specific limits on our freedom, but only through benevolent love. The Ten Commandments are not the ten suggestions. While I know, and all who strive to follow those Commandments know that they are happier and feel more blessed when they follow those Commandments, God will force no one to follow them or any of His other laws like tithing. The Ten Commandments are a distinct list of what our Father in heaven commands us to do. What is our punishment if we don’t obey them?
If God was right next to you (as He is), what do you think He would do if he saw you lying? Or take His name in vain? Does He strike you dead, or damn you to hell? Are they not commandments? When you think of your Father in heaven, do you think of a tyrant, or one who loves you unconditionally?
He loves us unconditionally, but He blesses those who obey His commandments more than those who don’t. He will not force us to obey, but he will and does exclude us from the blessings of obedience. This is perfect merciful justice.
We believe that all mankind may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. The Ten Commandments are the beginning and foundational laws, and the Law of Abraham and the Order of Enoch are the highest. In order to live the highest laws, men must have a central Priesthood authority for them to look up to and obey. The anxious, those who desire to throw off all selfishness seek to obey more and more; they are those who want to obey with all their hearts. Obedience is like delicious fruit to them. So they look for the man who they believe is the most like God; the one who they can trust to tell them what the Lord wants them to do. It is their belief in God that turns them to this one man.
I don’t know of a lady who does not want to be married. Motherhood is what most girls dream about. Marriage is the greatest step in a ladies life. I have never in my life even heard of a girl who was married before they wanted to be. That is until long after they were married and changed their mind, some decide to change their mind and remember that they didn’t date their husband and so they must have been forced.
No one can ever be forced to live their religion. No matter how big a gun you have pointed at their head, you cannot force someone to have faith in the prophet or God. It would be completely pointless to pressure someone to tell the truth against their will, let alone get married against their will. You can’t get to heaven unless you want to. The prophet would never even want to make you. The only thing that could be considered force in the gospel is the guilty conscience we get if we don’t obey it. You never will have a guilty conscience if you are innocent; the innocent have no reason to be worried.
Heavenly Father is a dictator, He dictates. If we will ask and listen, He speaks to each of us and tells us what we should do to govern our personal responsibilities. Each person is responsible for themselves, a mother is responsible for her children, a father is responsible for his home, and the prophet is responsible for the obedient church members.
“You may keep Plural Marriage and live it pretty strict, but you reject the United Order. United Order and Plural Marriage are the highest orders of the Priesthood. Whether we keep them or whether we reject them it is going to be up to us….
What difference does it make who the man is at the head? Who the man is doesn’t make a bit of difference. When he is placed there, God tells him to set certain men apart. What difference does it make who it is? I am well aware that I am not as good a man as Uncle John Woolley and Lorin. I haven’t had the experience yet. But I do know this Gospel is true and that these brethren here are called of God. I do know that every man that fights it. I don’t care who it is, will reject the counsel of God concerning themselves.” (John Y Barlow 9/14/47)
1-The Holy United Order (referred to in the Bible and Book of Mormon as “All Things in Common”) This is the Economic Order of heaven. Also called the Order of Enoch
2-The Celestial Law of Marriage, including the plurality of wives. This is the Family Order of Heaven. Also called the Law of Abraham
I list the two highest laws for us to ponder upon. Many who may read this may be very vengeful about them, or at least indifferent to them, wanting me to get to the central one; the one that makes these two laws livable on earth. But I would like you to imagine yourself taking your entire life; stripping it of selfishness, and putting it into these two laws.
Men must overcome all jealousy to live the first one. It is the most difficult. Their effort must be completely selfless or the Order will not function. Masculinity is rather independent and confrontational, and these things must be subdued in the heart. In all of history, this economic order has only one lasting success story, found in the Pearl of Great Price. After the Savior came the early Saints set up this order in Israel and in America, but they did not last. The YFZ community in Texas is one of the central efforts set up today. There are others, but they all have this in common; unity of economic effort; giving all for the common good.
The second law requires the ladies to overcome their jealousy. That is easy for them. No lady has ever had a problem living polygny. OK! I am just joking! But ladies do have an inward ability to be more compassionate and caring, humble and religious. There are struggles, for sure, jealousy and selfishness cannot survive, but day to day life is easier for the ladies who share the duties of the home. It is not difficult when they can find a man who is stalwart and loyal to his leaders and an example of how to live pure. Joining forces with him is not as difficult as is portrayed by the few who abandon the idea.
Few people have any idea how wonderful the home and community is with those who are determined to overcome themselves and live these laws to their last breath. I have never seen a happier more peaceful people. But I must tell you, these two laws cannot be lived without the one that this post is titled after. I promise you, it is impossible.
The FLDS church is a family, and church organization under the wing of the Constitutional laws of the United States. The political order within the church itself is a Benevolent Dictatorship; in essence communism, or communalism.
Personal free will is what the war in heaven was fought over. It is what the American war of Independence was fought over. Almost every war that ever was, was one fought over freedom from tyranny and oppression. But by reading the Bible, you can see that God puts specific limits on our freedom, but only through benevolent love. The Ten Commandments are not the ten suggestions. While I know, and all who strive to follow those Commandments know that they are happier and feel more blessed when they follow those Commandments, God will force no one to follow them or any of His other laws like tithing. The Ten Commandments are a distinct list of what our Father in heaven commands us to do. What is our punishment if we don’t obey them?
If God was right next to you (as He is), what do you think He would do if he saw you lying? Or take His name in vain? Does He strike you dead, or damn you to hell? Are they not commandments? When you think of your Father in heaven, do you think of a tyrant, or one who loves you unconditionally?
He loves us unconditionally, but He blesses those who obey His commandments more than those who don’t. He will not force us to obey, but he will and does exclude us from the blessings of obedience. This is perfect merciful justice.
We believe that all mankind may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. The Ten Commandments are the beginning and foundational laws, and the Law of Abraham and the Order of Enoch are the highest. In order to live the highest laws, men must have a central Priesthood authority for them to look up to and obey. The anxious, those who desire to throw off all selfishness seek to obey more and more; they are those who want to obey with all their hearts. Obedience is like delicious fruit to them. So they look for the man who they believe is the most like God; the one who they can trust to tell them what the Lord wants them to do. It is their belief in God that turns them to this one man.
I don’t know of a lady who does not want to be married. Motherhood is what most girls dream about. Marriage is the greatest step in a ladies life. I have never in my life even heard of a girl who was married before they wanted to be. That is until long after they were married and changed their mind, some decide to change their mind and remember that they didn’t date their husband and so they must have been forced.
No one can ever be forced to live their religion. No matter how big a gun you have pointed at their head, you cannot force someone to have faith in the prophet or God. It would be completely pointless to pressure someone to tell the truth against their will, let alone get married against their will. You can’t get to heaven unless you want to. The prophet would never even want to make you. The only thing that could be considered force in the gospel is the guilty conscience we get if we don’t obey it. You never will have a guilty conscience if you are innocent; the innocent have no reason to be worried.
Heavenly Father is a dictator, He dictates. If we will ask and listen, He speaks to each of us and tells us what we should do to govern our personal responsibilities. Each person is responsible for themselves, a mother is responsible for her children, a father is responsible for his home, and the prophet is responsible for the obedient church members.
“You may keep Plural Marriage and live it pretty strict, but you reject the United Order. United Order and Plural Marriage are the highest orders of the Priesthood. Whether we keep them or whether we reject them it is going to be up to us….
What difference does it make who the man is at the head? Who the man is doesn’t make a bit of difference. When he is placed there, God tells him to set certain men apart. What difference does it make who it is? I am well aware that I am not as good a man as Uncle John Woolley and Lorin. I haven’t had the experience yet. But I do know this Gospel is true and that these brethren here are called of God. I do know that every man that fights it. I don’t care who it is, will reject the counsel of God concerning themselves.” (John Y Barlow 9/14/47)
Sunday, June 15, 2008
Maggie Knows
http://www.truthwillprevail.org/index.php?index=0&parentid=1
"As we drove away from the facility, a chilling numbness wrapped itself around my heart, the harsh reality of unpreventable injustice, and I felt helplessly appalled at the inhumanity of gross misunderstanding.
"I knew that the state employees didn't really have anything against me personally, but it was painfully obvious that we were victims of an intrusive and manipulative invasion of a government entity out of control, a nameless, faceless monster, bloated with horrendous pride and vindictive prejudice, fed by the hateful sap flowing en masse from the venomous fangs of anti-FLDS crusaders.
"The evil demon, motivated by anger, jealousy, lying, hate, money, power, and corruption, had wound its vicious tentacles in and out, around and among hundreds of unaware, yet corruptible human beings, servants of the vast domain of the State of Texas.
"What a shame that people in responsible positions would be foolish and gullible enough to allow themselves to be "educated" by contemptible snakes and their lying propaganda against us, and then without conscience, form biased and inaccurate opinions without taking responsibility for their own actions, apparently incapable of searching for truth, allowing themselves to be controlled by the Master Puppeteer.
"We know the CPS is not the instigator of this despicable crime. They simply and detestably fall into the identity of the wicked tool, a destructive sledgehammer, slathered with the murky grease of religious and political corruption, intended to mar and destroy an unpopular religion, wielded by none other than Satan himself."
"As we drove away from the facility, a chilling numbness wrapped itself around my heart, the harsh reality of unpreventable injustice, and I felt helplessly appalled at the inhumanity of gross misunderstanding.
"I knew that the state employees didn't really have anything against me personally, but it was painfully obvious that we were victims of an intrusive and manipulative invasion of a government entity out of control, a nameless, faceless monster, bloated with horrendous pride and vindictive prejudice, fed by the hateful sap flowing en masse from the venomous fangs of anti-FLDS crusaders.
"The evil demon, motivated by anger, jealousy, lying, hate, money, power, and corruption, had wound its vicious tentacles in and out, around and among hundreds of unaware, yet corruptible human beings, servants of the vast domain of the State of Texas.
"What a shame that people in responsible positions would be foolish and gullible enough to allow themselves to be "educated" by contemptible snakes and their lying propaganda against us, and then without conscience, form biased and inaccurate opinions without taking responsibility for their own actions, apparently incapable of searching for truth, allowing themselves to be controlled by the Master Puppeteer.
"We know the CPS is not the instigator of this despicable crime. They simply and detestably fall into the identity of the wicked tool, a destructive sledgehammer, slathered with the murky grease of religious and political corruption, intended to mar and destroy an unpopular religion, wielded by none other than Satan himself."
Monday, June 2, 2008
Lest we Forget
Ruth Edna Fischer was first allowed to see her 2-year-old daughter, from whom she had been separated after the raid on their polygamist ranch in Texas, at the child’s hospital room. The child had been taken there because of severe dehydration and malnutrition, Ms. Fischer said.“Hannah looked like a little orphan sitting on the couch,” Ms. Fischer said. “Her hair was stringy and she was in a diaper, a pair of dirty socks and a hospital gown.”
The second visit two weeks later at a state office in Angleton, Tex., was worse. The girl would not even meet her mother’s gaze. “It was like she hardly remembered me,” said Ms. Fischer, who has four children in state custody.
Many child-welfare experts across the nation, who have as a group watched the high-profile Texas case closely, say the raid on the polygamist ranch diverged sharply from the recommended practices both in Texas and elsewhere in the country.
They say a growing body of research supports the contention of the mothers that forceful removal can have both significant short-term and long-lasting harm, particularly for younger children. Some studies have found that the wide-ranging effects include anxiety, extreme distrust of strangers and, in the future, higher rates of juvenile incarceration.
Through their lawyers and in personal interviews, the mothers have been spilling tales of toddlers who have forgotten toilet training and 3-year-olds who cling to them frantically during visits.
“They made no effort to keep the children there at the ranch,” said Johana Scot, executive director of the Parent Guidance Center in Austin, which helps advocate for the rights of parents who have had their children taken into foster care.
“And even worse, they did not give the families individual hearings, which they are also required to do by the code,” Ms. Scot said. “They’ve really botched this.”
“Breaking all of the ties to several parental figures and siblings, and taking them to a remote and unfamiliar place raises many red flags about trauma and its effect on children,” Mr. Cohen said
Experts say younger children, who often do not have a sense of the passage of time, can be particularly hard hit by such separations. About 100 of the children removed from the sect were 2 years old or younger.
Shelly Greco, a court-appointed lawyer for a 14-month-old girl removed from the ranch, says the child had been up crying uncontrollably many nights because she was so abruptly weaned.
But Lori Jessop, one of a few mothers from the ranch who were reunited with their children in a court-brokered agreement last Friday, said she had already seen the impact of this situation. Ms. Jessop said her three children were suffering from night terrors and a fear of strangers, among other problems.
She said that when her 4-year-old daughter recently saw a picture of a bus, like the one used to transport the children when they were in foster care, she started to cry.
“It’s affected her a lot,” Ms. Jessop said. “Everybody that she sees, especially adult men, she calls them policemen.”
-From the New York Times
Wednesday, May 28, 2008
Q and A with FLDS mothers
How in the world do you make sure each child gets quality one-on-one time in such a large family group?
From lover of the truth:
The simple answer to that question is: We don't live for ourselves! We live for others, for our children and for our sister wives, Husbands live to bless the work, Wives live to bless the husbands, sister wives and children, they are much to engaged to worry about who's sleeping with who. Who's servicing who, who's got what, and who is loved the most. A true husband loves everyone, and it's never been a truer saying than with each endeavor to love, the capacity to love grows larger. The more children in the home, the more love in us. We are here to make heaven on earth, the only competition being who can do the most for another. So, we don't live for ourselves. I know what your saying, "how is that possible?", well, it takes work, and it takes dedication, it takes overcoming the inherent faults within us. When it becomes first tendency to live and love that way, it is beautiful. I hope that answered that question, the children get much more one on one time than they would in a single relationship, they have many mothers, and they can go to any one of them and know that that Mother loves them, and will do all she can to bless them.
Do you celebrate Mothers day?
From lover of the truth again:
To answer the question, No, We don't celebrate any certain day as Mother's day, again Mothers are very special every day, and most that you talk to would tell you that they feel that way. It's tradition to make one day for Thanksgiving-Father's Day-Mothers Day. Every day we should be thankful, every day we should thanks God for our husbands, wives, mothers, and fathers. That's how we feel, that's how we live.
Did any of the young women ever desire to have careers or lives outside the compound? Was it discouraged or flat out denied?
From lover of the truth:
Did you hear about Lorie Jessop, she is an EMT-I!! I don't know if you saw it, but yes, if the ladies would like to do something and have their hearts set upon it, then they are allowed free choice. There is not, and I repeat not any force in our religion!! If there is somebody who was, then I'm sorry they or the person who forced them PLAIN AND SIMPLY was pretending to live our religion and wasn't truly. There are many nurses, FNP, Midwives, School Teachers, Book Keepers, EMT's, and on and on and on in our communities, that are women. If a woman wants out, then she can leave, as parents, when they are still minors, we have to be responsible for them, but even then I have never seen any of the people I know force them to stay. Rather, I've seen parents fast, pray, and go out at all hours of the night to retrieve them, and offer them a loving home to come to. I've seen the girls leave, I've seen some come back, I've seen some gone for good. There is no force in our religion!!
Isn't the prophet supposed to choose for you?”
Anon FLDS mother:
When I was married.. I was asked by the Prophet "how do you feel about marrying so'n'so? I replied " I feel fine about that" I knew who he was although I didn't "know him".I think this is what is meant by most of our women when they say they "chose" their Husbands. Although there are some couples that "chose each other" in many cases they were sent away to repent and later married by the Prophet.I have a wonderful life.. I am still the only wife..but I am praying that we can be blessed with another lady in the family. My Husband told me that it is ok for the wife to pray for a sister wife..but as for the Husband it is no concern of his until he is invited to live it.
[Insert by pligchild: "choosing each other" is dating without permission. I know a few that felt impressed who they should marry, and married that man]
I would like to know if FLDS folks get social security cards. I would like to know if they have birth certificates. I would like to know if the children from spiritual marriages are on welfare and if the women are registered with the welfare system as a single mother.I would like to know if they file tax returns and if they do are they claiming to be single mothers. I would like to know if these women will get the stimulus package from the government for all of their children and do they have to hand over this money to their spiritual husbands. Thank you.
From anon FLDS mother:
Everyone has Birth Cirt's. and S.S. cards...and as far as the welfare goes I can only answer for what I know.The only plural family that I personally am aware of..when they did apply for F.S. & Medical it was. Husband, Wife #1,Wife #2,Wife #3.etc..they applied as a family.I looked at their form as I was asked to vouch for knowing them. Three of the ladies in that family were related to me.As for my own family..(only wife) yes we were on F.S. & Medical for about 1 1/2 years as we fell on hard times. My Husband lost his job..I was a stay at home Mother and our two older sons supported the family until we got back on our feet. We got off welfare as soon as we could as my Husband referred to it as the "government tit" and hated the idea of asking them for help.
Carol (non FLDS fundamentalist)
Yes, we do get social security cards. Yes, we do get birth certificates. Some children are on welfare, some aren't depending on the beliefs of the parents. Yes, even in this group different families believe differently on things like that. Yes, we do file tax returns and what else can we claim, if the government doesn't recognize the plural marriage? Yes, we will receive the stimulus package, but not likely for all the children. Maybe one or two. And if the plural wife chooses she can keep the money. This is just one perspective, there are definitely many more.
Any woman who leaves the FLDS and exposes the trauma they experienced are exaggerating and lying because they are blinded by bitterness and jealously. ?
Carol:
I was talking from my perspective, and I was Honest to my knowledge. I know there are some men that really are that horrible to their families. But it is not the norm. And I said some of it could have happened. But I will say yes, I do believe they are hateful, jealous and exaggerating. I will make no compromise on that because I know from experience how a person(s) can seem from the hateful, jealous side. And when you are enclosed in that little world, you tend to blow things WAY out of proportion. I am not denying things like this have happened. They have, but it tends to be the ones that are NOT living their religion. Is my answer any better??
[From Pligchild: "there are some men that really are that horrible to their families" the FLDS send them out when discovered]
Please explain to me why handicapped or severely ill children are seen as (for lack of a better word)products of their mothers' disobedience to the prophet and God? Isn't every child perfect and loved by God equally?
Anon FLDS mother:
That is not true. We were told by Uncle Rulon (our Dear Prophet) that the children that are born with handicaps are the MOST PRECIOUS spirits of our Father in Heaven..and that he sent them to the earth that way so that they could NOT be let astray and that when they returned unto him they would be Pure and Innocent. He also went on to say that the spirits in heaven have a choice as to whether accept a body that is handicapped or refuse it.
Why would Carolyn say that her husband and sister wives told her that she had a handicapped son because she was disobedient?
Anon FLDS:
..I know for a fact that Merrill's oldest son has a disables daughter (from wife #2) and they have a picture plaque in their front entryway that states how blessed they feel as a family to be chosen by God to have such a precious spirit come into their lives..that the Lord trusted them enough to give them this special child that would need lots of care. I can see where a jealous wife could say hurtful things to another wife..but it is hard for me to swallow that Merrill would say such things as he knows and understands the same teachings that I do.
The Prophet Joseph Smiths said: Do NOT wish evil on those that persecute us or do harm to us..for when you see what they go through as a punishment for their wrongs against his anointed..We will mourn and pray for them. Because it will be so terrible...Our Dear Prophet Uncle John Y. Barlow said:That the Lord showed him the destruction's and what would become of the wicked...and it was so terrible that he plead with the Lord to close the vision..because he could not stand to see any more.So.. I can only speak for myself, but..I am praying that the people that are persecuting our people would "WAKE UP and REPENT" of their wrongs before it is to late.I do not wish harm on "CPS" or the "OFFICIALS" that are heading this campaign against us.. but I DO PRAY that the LORDS WILL, will be done on earth as it is in HEAVEN. When he says ENOUGH..then he will bring an end to the wrongs that are brought against his people.
From lover of the truth:
The simple answer to that question is: We don't live for ourselves! We live for others, for our children and for our sister wives, Husbands live to bless the work, Wives live to bless the husbands, sister wives and children, they are much to engaged to worry about who's sleeping with who. Who's servicing who, who's got what, and who is loved the most. A true husband loves everyone, and it's never been a truer saying than with each endeavor to love, the capacity to love grows larger. The more children in the home, the more love in us. We are here to make heaven on earth, the only competition being who can do the most for another. So, we don't live for ourselves. I know what your saying, "how is that possible?", well, it takes work, and it takes dedication, it takes overcoming the inherent faults within us. When it becomes first tendency to live and love that way, it is beautiful. I hope that answered that question, the children get much more one on one time than they would in a single relationship, they have many mothers, and they can go to any one of them and know that that Mother loves them, and will do all she can to bless them.
Do you celebrate Mothers day?
From lover of the truth again:
To answer the question, No, We don't celebrate any certain day as Mother's day, again Mothers are very special every day, and most that you talk to would tell you that they feel that way. It's tradition to make one day for Thanksgiving-Father's Day-Mothers Day. Every day we should be thankful, every day we should thanks God for our husbands, wives, mothers, and fathers. That's how we feel, that's how we live.
Did any of the young women ever desire to have careers or lives outside the compound? Was it discouraged or flat out denied?
From lover of the truth:
Did you hear about Lorie Jessop, she is an EMT-I!! I don't know if you saw it, but yes, if the ladies would like to do something and have their hearts set upon it, then they are allowed free choice. There is not, and I repeat not any force in our religion!! If there is somebody who was, then I'm sorry they or the person who forced them PLAIN AND SIMPLY was pretending to live our religion and wasn't truly. There are many nurses, FNP, Midwives, School Teachers, Book Keepers, EMT's, and on and on and on in our communities, that are women. If a woman wants out, then she can leave, as parents, when they are still minors, we have to be responsible for them, but even then I have never seen any of the people I know force them to stay. Rather, I've seen parents fast, pray, and go out at all hours of the night to retrieve them, and offer them a loving home to come to. I've seen the girls leave, I've seen some come back, I've seen some gone for good. There is no force in our religion!!
Isn't the prophet supposed to choose for you?”
Anon FLDS mother:
When I was married.. I was asked by the Prophet "how do you feel about marrying so'n'so? I replied " I feel fine about that" I knew who he was although I didn't "know him".I think this is what is meant by most of our women when they say they "chose" their Husbands. Although there are some couples that "chose each other" in many cases they were sent away to repent and later married by the Prophet.I have a wonderful life.. I am still the only wife..but I am praying that we can be blessed with another lady in the family. My Husband told me that it is ok for the wife to pray for a sister wife..but as for the Husband it is no concern of his until he is invited to live it.
[Insert by pligchild: "choosing each other" is dating without permission. I know a few that felt impressed who they should marry, and married that man]
I would like to know if FLDS folks get social security cards. I would like to know if they have birth certificates. I would like to know if the children from spiritual marriages are on welfare and if the women are registered with the welfare system as a single mother.I would like to know if they file tax returns and if they do are they claiming to be single mothers. I would like to know if these women will get the stimulus package from the government for all of their children and do they have to hand over this money to their spiritual husbands. Thank you.
From anon FLDS mother:
Everyone has Birth Cirt's. and S.S. cards...and as far as the welfare goes I can only answer for what I know.The only plural family that I personally am aware of..when they did apply for F.S. & Medical it was. Husband, Wife #1,Wife #2,Wife #3.etc..they applied as a family.I looked at their form as I was asked to vouch for knowing them. Three of the ladies in that family were related to me.As for my own family..(only wife) yes we were on F.S. & Medical for about 1 1/2 years as we fell on hard times. My Husband lost his job..I was a stay at home Mother and our two older sons supported the family until we got back on our feet. We got off welfare as soon as we could as my Husband referred to it as the "government tit" and hated the idea of asking them for help.
Carol (non FLDS fundamentalist)
Yes, we do get social security cards. Yes, we do get birth certificates. Some children are on welfare, some aren't depending on the beliefs of the parents. Yes, even in this group different families believe differently on things like that. Yes, we do file tax returns and what else can we claim, if the government doesn't recognize the plural marriage? Yes, we will receive the stimulus package, but not likely for all the children. Maybe one or two. And if the plural wife chooses she can keep the money. This is just one perspective, there are definitely many more.
Any woman who leaves the FLDS and exposes the trauma they experienced are exaggerating and lying because they are blinded by bitterness and jealously. ?
Carol:
I was talking from my perspective, and I was Honest to my knowledge. I know there are some men that really are that horrible to their families. But it is not the norm. And I said some of it could have happened. But I will say yes, I do believe they are hateful, jealous and exaggerating. I will make no compromise on that because I know from experience how a person(s) can seem from the hateful, jealous side. And when you are enclosed in that little world, you tend to blow things WAY out of proportion. I am not denying things like this have happened. They have, but it tends to be the ones that are NOT living their religion. Is my answer any better??
[From Pligchild: "there are some men that really are that horrible to their families" the FLDS send them out when discovered]
Please explain to me why handicapped or severely ill children are seen as (for lack of a better word)products of their mothers' disobedience to the prophet and God? Isn't every child perfect and loved by God equally?
Anon FLDS mother:
That is not true. We were told by Uncle Rulon (our Dear Prophet) that the children that are born with handicaps are the MOST PRECIOUS spirits of our Father in Heaven..and that he sent them to the earth that way so that they could NOT be let astray and that when they returned unto him they would be Pure and Innocent. He also went on to say that the spirits in heaven have a choice as to whether accept a body that is handicapped or refuse it.
Why would Carolyn say that her husband and sister wives told her that she had a handicapped son because she was disobedient?
Anon FLDS:
..I know for a fact that Merrill's oldest son has a disables daughter (from wife #2) and they have a picture plaque in their front entryway that states how blessed they feel as a family to be chosen by God to have such a precious spirit come into their lives..that the Lord trusted them enough to give them this special child that would need lots of care. I can see where a jealous wife could say hurtful things to another wife..but it is hard for me to swallow that Merrill would say such things as he knows and understands the same teachings that I do.
The Prophet Joseph Smiths said: Do NOT wish evil on those that persecute us or do harm to us..for when you see what they go through as a punishment for their wrongs against his anointed..We will mourn and pray for them. Because it will be so terrible...Our Dear Prophet Uncle John Y. Barlow said:That the Lord showed him the destruction's and what would become of the wicked...and it was so terrible that he plead with the Lord to close the vision..because he could not stand to see any more.So.. I can only speak for myself, but..I am praying that the people that are persecuting our people would "WAKE UP and REPENT" of their wrongs before it is to late.I do not wish harm on "CPS" or the "OFFICIALS" that are heading this campaign against us.. but I DO PRAY that the LORDS WILL, will be done on earth as it is in HEAVEN. When he says ENOUGH..then he will bring an end to the wrongs that are brought against his people.
Saturday, May 24, 2008
Excellent Radio Interview
Listen to this: http://www.theedgeam.com/political/main.htm
Thanks SAM!
Some notes:
My aunt Susan was five and died in the raid in 1953
Every one of the disputed minors are not minors.
The name of the town Rozita was from is Colorado Springs
The 23 year old who was taken as a child was interviewed by the Associated Press before she was taken. (As well as Dan Jessop) Watch it here: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=CPDpuxFluf0
They have been forced to “incriminate” themselves with the DNA testing garbage; the mothers have been telling the truth all along
Couple things that are slightly inaccurate about the interview:
-There was no informant inside the ranch, the sherriff David Doran had a "former member" as his informant, likely Flora Jessop (How do you tell she is lying? Her lips move)
-There was a slight confrontation between the kneeling and praying men and the police at the temple. Two men were arrested for getting in the way of them, the rest were held “at bay” with machine guns as they prayed.
-I saw the CPS in Arizona do an admirable job when Flora got my sister Fawn to claim abuse, so not all of the CPS are “sadistic”
Link to article with mental health worker letters:
http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9238520
Link to petition:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/free-the-innocent-flds
Friday, May 16, 2008
Liar, Liar
Sorry I have been really busy and away from internet access.
Here is an excellent post from, Grits for Breakfast
It proves that the FLDS will lie, and cheat.
"In order to stay with their children, 26 more women announced they were minors, boarded the bus with their kids"
I know you wouldn't lie about such things, would you?
Here is an excellent post from, Grits for Breakfast
It proves that the FLDS will lie, and cheat.
"In order to stay with their children, 26 more women announced they were minors, boarded the bus with their kids"
I know you wouldn't lie about such things, would you?
Wednesday, May 14, 2008
Feminine Feminists
The class was American history, the teacher was Warren Jeffs, and the subject was suffrage for women.“Are men more important than women in the kingdom of God?” he asked us. “If you think so raise your hand”. As we twisted in our seats looking around to see who would raise their hands I was surprised. The lone person in the room with their hand up was my sister. I don’t know if anyone else thought the same and were bashful, but I certainly didn’t.
(photo: Susan B. Anthony)
Despite what some people might think, women and men are different. When a child comes into the world, that child comes through a mother. The bond between a mother and child is one a father cannot know. Mothers are usually the center of the universe to their children. I envied that bond with my children and their mother. There is no bond like the one I have with my mother here and I can only imagine the one I had with my Mother in heaven.
The first womens association in America, and perhaps in the world, was created on March 17, 1842 in Nauvoo Illinois. It was called The Women’s Relief Society. It was created to “provoke the brethren to good works in looking to the wants of the poor—searching after objects of charity, and in administering to their wants—to assist by correcting the morals and strengthening the virtues of the community." (Minutes of the Female Relief Society of Nauvoo, 17 Mar. 1842) The founding officers of the society were the wives of Mormon prophet Joseph Smith.
Some people think that if polygyny was decriminalized, than society would crumble, but I think very much the opposite. For although it is true that if every man had two wives, then there wouldn’t be enough women to go around, but that would not necessarily be a bad thing. If polygny was not despised as it is, then women would have more ability to find a good husband if that is what she wanted to do. And could do what she wanted to do outside the home without worrying about leaving her children with strangers.
As is the case in many families in and out of the FLDS, women have interests outside of the family.
Brigham Young said:
“We believe that women are not only to sweep houses, wash dishes, make beds and raise babies, but they should stand behind the counter, study law or physic, or become good bookkeepers and be able to do the business in any counting house, and all this to enlarge their sphere of usefulness for the benefit of society at large. In following these things they but answer the design of their creation” (JD 13:61)
Now in monogamous only society (which is really perpetual polygamy), if a lady wants to have a family and a job, then she has to hire a non-family daycare to tend and teach her children while she is gone. But in Polygyny, that is not a problem because there is always a mother in the house. Most FLDS ladies have no desire to leave their children at all and would gladly mother all of her husband’s children.
Then there are men. Gather any group of men anywhere, and put them in a room, and swear them to secrecy from their wives, and ask them if they think they could handle Polygyny. 99% would say yes. But so many men are irresponsible, and so many men are unfaithful. There will be much more women than men in the highest heaven. Polygyny is much harder on the man, than on the women, for he must raise his esteem with the ladies to qualify the respect that is necessary to be the head of his dualistic family. Men who engage in Polygyny must be BETTER men than those who only have one wife to report to. It would make for better men all around, especially if men, who were unfaithful to their wife or wives, could see how easy she could leave and find a better one.
Mark Twain visited Utah and wrote, (jokingly): "The man that marries one of them has done an act of Christian charity, and the man that marries sixty of them has done a deed of open-handed generosity so sublime that the nations should stand uncovered in his presence and worship in silence."
In 1870 the Polygynous Utah territory became the first place in the world to allow women to vote at the ballot. In 1875 a petition signed by 22,626 women in Utah asked Congress to repeal the 1862 Morrill anti-bigamy act. But to "preserve the purity of women" the ability for women to vote was removed by the anti-polygamy Edmunds-Tucker act of 1887.
When the Supreme Court upheld the overturning of the First Amendment in 1879, the New York Times editorial insulted women by saying: “The woman is naturally the weaker vessel, as St Peter has declared, and has oftener been coerced into polygamous marriage than she has sought it of her own free will” And then as if women were incapable of speaking for themselves: “Delegations of Mormon women, assiduously “coached” by the Mormon lobby, have waited upon the wife of the President, beseeching her to use her influence wit her husband so that the law may not be enforced to their disadvantage”
It matters less how you feel about polygny than it does about the freedom others should have to the lifestyle of their choice. Women should have the right to choose polygyny. The best women on earth, including my mother, have and will continue to exercise that right whether you allow them to or not.
My sister now knows personally that motherhood is every bit as important as fatherhood, and Patriarchal Priesthood is only as great as Matriarchal leadership allows it to be. Women do look to men for leadership, but men always look to women for home. That is what Warren Jeffs taught us.
Better Info than Me
I found A much better place to read about the FLDS
The new website called "Truth Will Prevail"
The new website called "Truth Will Prevail"
Saturday, May 10, 2008
FLDS vs Forced Marriage
Here is the central theme to the FLDS marriage system, mind you this is from a revelation from our Father in Heaven to the Prophet Joseph Smith, This is our Lord speaking:
"All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power…are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead" (D&C 132:7)
"And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word,… by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood…it shall be done unto them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world" (D&C132:19)
"Gave instructions to try those persons who were preaching, teaching, or practicing the doctrine of plurality of wives; for, according to the law, I hold the keys of this power in the last days; for there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom the power and its keys are conferred; and I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise" (Joseph Smith DHC 6:46)
"Everything the GOD gives us is lawful and right; and it is proper that we should enjoy His gifts and blessings whenever and wherever He is disposed to bestow; but if we should seize upon those same blessings and enjoyments without law, without revelation, without commandment, those blessings and enjoyments would prove cursing's and vexations in the end, and we should have to lie down in sorrow and wailings of everlasting regret." (Joseph Smith DHC 5:135)
The FLDS marriage system is really quite awesome to us. It is exactly opposite of what you would expect by watching the news. All of my married sisters would tell you as they often did me, that they would never want to get married any other way. I definitely would never have it any other way. Imagine, not even having to worry about finding a good mate, but just trusting in the power of Prayer, and inspiration from God; at times revealed to us directly, but always through the Prophet’s direction and authority. How can you make a mistake if God does it?
There is no trial and error in the FLDS. I never dated, I only went to a few dances, and the only girls I really associated with after high school were my sisters. My first kiss was at my wedding ceremony, and it was awesome!
In the FLDS, the men are not to solicit for wives, or court (unless by direction or permission), and the girls are not to respond to the advances of boys or men, but all are to be anxious to do their duty, and remember to pray always. I have sisters and brothers who were directly inspired about their marriages. The rest of us just put ourselves in the hands of the Prophet and prayed that God would direct him in our behalf. There is no greater joy than to have God speak in your behalf.
The men are officially turned in for marriage when they are ordained as Elders, and stay turned in through purity, kindness, loyalty, and obedience. If a man leaves, or loses his Priesthood through sin, his wife or wives do not have to go with him. If they are married by the Priesthood, and they lose the Priesthood, then the marriage is void. That is the truth, and you can see the bitter ex members spin it all sorts of different ways.
The bitter people who leave say that the FLDS people live in fear of the tyrannical renegade prophet. Honestly the only people who live in fear are those who secretly do wrong and are trying to hide it, or those who do not want to be there anyway. The rest of the people are trying to mind their own business and work out their own salvation. Many of the people who "escape" (leave) get really mad because those who stay have no desire to "escape" with them and hate the leader as they do. So they heave all their fury at the government, to "do something" to stop this "terrible mad man". It is the same accusation made many times before, all the way back to Joseph Smith.
I just want to tell you, Warren Jeffs is the most humble man I have ever met who is still alive. He has been the leader only since late 2002; but the FLDS marriage system is much older. My grandparents were married this way in the early 40's, and even Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, and John Woolly directed many marriage arrangements. Everything Warren Jeffs does, he does to help and improve the people. Even I who have been sent out, it was done to improve me, and the people I left behind. Although it definitely has been painful, I feel it was the best thing to happen to help me, if not to my family. Everything is a growing experience. I know it hurt him to need to do it, and I take full responsibility for it.
The stories of forced marriage have been in the news since the beginning of time. Just read the New York Times archives back in the 1870's. People assume that the ladies have to be forced, for as they would say, "What girl that is not forced would ever want to be a plural wife?" I know a few. No one is forced to marry at any age in the FLDS. The girls go to their good fathers when THEY want to get married. If he and their mother approve, then they would go see the Prophet. Even after they seek the prophets council they have the option to say who they want to marry, or they can say yes or no to the man the prophet suggests without any recourse whatsoever. I saw it many times. The FLDS people seek to be inspired from heaven in all things, and most especially when it comes to this, the most important act in life. In heaven there is only peace. There is never force, ever. It is the opposite of the FLDS religion to force. We were taught that the devil was cast out of heaven because he wanted to force us to be good.
An few hours before our wedding, my fiance and I went for a drive together, and she talked while I listened. Finally I got up the courage to ask her, "Will you marry me?" I realized by the look on her face that it was a strange question. "Of course", she said, smiled wide, and went back to talking.
This is the free will in the FLDS church. It makes it much more comfortable around others. Little of this "what if" happens. We believe God is doing it, sometimes by revelation to ourselves, but always through the inspired Priesthood. We either believe, or don’t.
"All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power…are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead" (D&C 132:7)
"And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word,… by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood…it shall be done unto them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world" (D&C132:19)
"Gave instructions to try those persons who were preaching, teaching, or practicing the doctrine of plurality of wives; for, according to the law, I hold the keys of this power in the last days; for there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom the power and its keys are conferred; and I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise" (Joseph Smith DHC 6:46)
"Everything the GOD gives us is lawful and right; and it is proper that we should enjoy His gifts and blessings whenever and wherever He is disposed to bestow; but if we should seize upon those same blessings and enjoyments without law, without revelation, without commandment, those blessings and enjoyments would prove cursing's and vexations in the end, and we should have to lie down in sorrow and wailings of everlasting regret." (Joseph Smith DHC 5:135)
The FLDS marriage system is really quite awesome to us. It is exactly opposite of what you would expect by watching the news. All of my married sisters would tell you as they often did me, that they would never want to get married any other way. I definitely would never have it any other way. Imagine, not even having to worry about finding a good mate, but just trusting in the power of Prayer, and inspiration from God; at times revealed to us directly, but always through the Prophet’s direction and authority. How can you make a mistake if God does it?
There is no trial and error in the FLDS. I never dated, I only went to a few dances, and the only girls I really associated with after high school were my sisters. My first kiss was at my wedding ceremony, and it was awesome!
In the FLDS, the men are not to solicit for wives, or court (unless by direction or permission), and the girls are not to respond to the advances of boys or men, but all are to be anxious to do their duty, and remember to pray always. I have sisters and brothers who were directly inspired about their marriages. The rest of us just put ourselves in the hands of the Prophet and prayed that God would direct him in our behalf. There is no greater joy than to have God speak in your behalf.
The men are officially turned in for marriage when they are ordained as Elders, and stay turned in through purity, kindness, loyalty, and obedience. If a man leaves, or loses his Priesthood through sin, his wife or wives do not have to go with him. If they are married by the Priesthood, and they lose the Priesthood, then the marriage is void. That is the truth, and you can see the bitter ex members spin it all sorts of different ways.
The bitter people who leave say that the FLDS people live in fear of the tyrannical renegade prophet. Honestly the only people who live in fear are those who secretly do wrong and are trying to hide it, or those who do not want to be there anyway. The rest of the people are trying to mind their own business and work out their own salvation. Many of the people who "escape" (leave) get really mad because those who stay have no desire to "escape" with them and hate the leader as they do. So they heave all their fury at the government, to "do something" to stop this "terrible mad man". It is the same accusation made many times before, all the way back to Joseph Smith.
I just want to tell you, Warren Jeffs is the most humble man I have ever met who is still alive. He has been the leader only since late 2002; but the FLDS marriage system is much older. My grandparents were married this way in the early 40's, and even Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, and John Woolly directed many marriage arrangements. Everything Warren Jeffs does, he does to help and improve the people. Even I who have been sent out, it was done to improve me, and the people I left behind. Although it definitely has been painful, I feel it was the best thing to happen to help me, if not to my family. Everything is a growing experience. I know it hurt him to need to do it, and I take full responsibility for it.
The stories of forced marriage have been in the news since the beginning of time. Just read the New York Times archives back in the 1870's. People assume that the ladies have to be forced, for as they would say, "What girl that is not forced would ever want to be a plural wife?" I know a few. No one is forced to marry at any age in the FLDS. The girls go to their good fathers when THEY want to get married. If he and their mother approve, then they would go see the Prophet. Even after they seek the prophets council they have the option to say who they want to marry, or they can say yes or no to the man the prophet suggests without any recourse whatsoever. I saw it many times. The FLDS people seek to be inspired from heaven in all things, and most especially when it comes to this, the most important act in life. In heaven there is only peace. There is never force, ever. It is the opposite of the FLDS religion to force. We were taught that the devil was cast out of heaven because he wanted to force us to be good.
An few hours before our wedding, my fiance and I went for a drive together, and she talked while I listened. Finally I got up the courage to ask her, "Will you marry me?" I realized by the look on her face that it was a strange question. "Of course", she said, smiled wide, and went back to talking.
This is the free will in the FLDS church. It makes it much more comfortable around others. Little of this "what if" happens. We believe God is doing it, sometimes by revelation to ourselves, but always through the inspired Priesthood. We either believe, or don’t.
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